Comments on: Learning Mandarin: Realistic Expectations

By: Eldon

Eldon — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 03:55:46 +0000

I don’t agree with those numbers at all. Although you’ll just have to take my word for it, my Cantonese is about minimum work standard after 18 months or so, and I’ve learnt to read and write (to the point where I can read ~2500 characters) at the same time.

If I can do it that fast even with Cantonese (with its extra tones and different grammar to written Chinese) while working as an English teacher, I see no reason for Mandarin learners to be any slower? (I’ve not even been doing it full time, I’m forever getting distracted by Mandarin, Japanese and French, not to mention all the English I ingest and expel each day.)

By: john

john — Thu, 19 May 2011 17:17:02 +0000

I think the chart is too pessimistic as well. I have been studying Chinese for four years, two of those at a university in the US and two of those in my free time in China. I honestly put in about 2-3 hours a day on average, which I definitely wouldn’t describe as full time study. I can have basic conversations perfectly well. My grammar isn’t great but people almost always understand my meaning. Also, the characters are not THAT hard. I can read the newspaper in Chinese and understand the gist of the article and most of the details. Right now I recognize probably between 2500-3000 characters. As for writing, I can use a computer to input Chinese just fine. Writing in Chinese is not a useful skill in this day and age. In fact, all of the younger Chinese I know are not able to hand write many the more uncommon characters, since they, like me, just use a computer to input them and have long since forgotten how to write them by hand.

My listening is still a bit sketchy. I can understand the TV dramas okay but the news is tough. My reading level is high enough to where I can read the subtitles if it’s not too fast.

Keep in mind that I’ve been doing this for 2-3 hours a day for four years, which is not full-time study, and I’m about at the same level of the chart, plus have good reading comprehension.

By: ji xiang

ji xiang — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 03:05:23 +0000

Frankly I think all this is exaggerated. I think the timetable laid out by this Martin Symons is far too pessimistic. In fact, you need abut one year of fulll time sutdy for daily living, two years for minimum work, and maybe three years for full work. Of couse, writing is more difficult, but reading is also not so unreachable. Sometimes I think foreigners who have learnt Chinese feel the need to perpetuate a myth about its huge difficulty. I know many foreigners in China who communicate fluently after a year or two of full time study

By: oohkuchi

oohkuchi — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:59:29 +0000

I’ve already droned on elsewhere about how hard it is read Chinese (never mind write it) but I feel again the need to puncture the ‘speaking Chinese is easy’ myth. I just do not believe any of the guys who say this could handle a two-minute discussion in Mandarin on, say, the impact of Three Gorges Dam project. Yes, the grammar is relatively simple. It is not hard to say ‘qing zailai yige pijiu.’ But any in-depth discussion, on any topic, is a very, very tall order, as you will need some serious vocabulary, which most foreigners frankly lack, and, more than that, you will need to understand what the other guy is saying. Don’t snigger, for this is the biggest obstacle. I know a Japanese woman, married for thirty years to a Chinese, who still cannot understand CCTV news properly. Aural comprehension is EXTREMELY difficult, as in more difficult than Japanese, French, Spanish, German, Russian or just about any other major language. This reasons for this are described above; suffice it to say, this is the single biggest hurdle you, the aspirant Mandarin learner, are going to encounter. It takes decades.

By: Joel

Joel — Sat, 02 May 2009 05:16:17 +0000

I don’t think we’re fluent in any meaningful sense of the word. How accurate that chart is to someone’s experience depends a lot on the student. We aren’t among those specially-gifted language geniuses, but we’re self-motivated and put in the study time. The chart fits us, though Jessica’s Chinese is noticeably better than mine (everyone says so, without hesitation; they’ll tell me every single time we’re out together speaking Chinese).

The better students in our school kept pace with the chart; the lazy and/or less gifted students didn’t. Plus, the chart’s categories are a little mushy: “daily living” vs. “minimum work”? A guy with English that matches my Chinese could get a job in Vancouver, but not a good one, not one that centered on communication.

At the end of two years we could spend a day out or an evening all in Chinese. It also helped that our friends and neighbours were more used to us, our accents, and the need to simplify their vocabulary. We had enough grammar that we could start to spend more mental energy on ideas and incorporating new vocab, instead of worrying about how to put the sentences together.

I could work somewhere that only required me to have basic Chinese. And we’re talking oral communication here, not reading and writing. I type Chinese e-mails to friends, but character recognition (typing pinyin and selecting characters from a list) isn’t the same as character recall (handwriting). My Chinese e-mails are several paragraphs long, but I know there’s bad grammar and word choice involved, plus I consult dictionary software a lot.

After two years I feel we’ve got something significant to work with, and that there’s potential for the future. The road ahead still looks endlessly long, but there’s some significant mileage behind us.

By: Nedzer

Nedzer — Sat, 02 May 2009 04:11:32 +0000

I’d be really interested to hear what your Chinese language level is now. It’s too years since you wrote this post. Are you fluent or can you get about an have basic conversations?

Do tell. We need a follow up from two years of experience.
Do you still agree with what you believed 2 years ago about Mandarin aquistion?

By: Erica

Erica — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:24:59 +0000

Dear all,
claiming that learning Chinese is the same as learning some other western language…well, that is surely to me. However, I must say I learned more Chinese in a 6 weeks course in Beijing than in a 3 years course in Italy, at university level. Now, maybe I am exaggerating things a bit, but still. I am saying this because living in China for a while is absolutely necessary in order to learn a decent Chinese. That’s it.

By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 05:17:35 +0000

This reminds me of the underwear
gnomes episode from South Park.

1. Study Chinese a loooong time
2. ???
3. Fluency! (or in the spirit of
South Park, make money!)

Totally agree that it takes that
long to get to real fluency as
you’ve defined it here and
elsewhere, Joel.

By: Joel

Joel — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:11:50 +0000

Thanks, Jonathan. I totally agree about the fun factor, and being willing to make a fool of yourself. There’s no avoiding it for people who want to actually progress.

I think Chinese learning expectations can be accurately described in different ways – it just depends on the perspective/measuring stick you’re using. From a foreigner-in-China perspective, we’re doing alright. But, like I said to Albert above, if I think of the immigrants in Vancouver that I grew up around and imagine them having the equivalent level of English, then suddenly our Chinese doesn’t look so hot. I think both measurements are legitimate: the first is more helpful and encouraging for us beginner language students, but the second is more ultimately accurate for people who want to live and work in another language and culture.

By: Jonathan

Jonathan — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 06:38:02 +0000

interesting blog…how’s the language study coming along? i taught english in Xi’an for a year, and with no prior language instruction in a year i was definitely able to do more than survive, i was finally reaching the point where i could make friends entirely in chinese and actually not feel like talking to them was a whole bunch of hard work. but for the most part i agree with your assessment on how long it takes to learn chinese. but just remember it’s all good fun and the best way to learn is to just get out there and make a fool of yourself :)