Please stop paying attention to my…

By ~
| Beauty | Being Chinese about it | Cultural perspectives | Culture stress | Learning |

Just when I start to think that I’ve gotten used to something over here, a whole slew of things will coincide to test that assumption and prove to me that I’m not nearly as used to (whatever) as I had thought. Sometimes this “whole slew of things” doesn’t all happen to me, but is shared experience spread out among myself and friends. I’ve mentioned before here how people, especially salesladies, like to make comments about body shape and size…sometimes grabbing and touching as well, to illustrate the point. I think I have discovered now that it’s not just salesladies, its women over a certain age (about 40 years old)…and it just so happens that most salesladies fall into that range.

All that to say, recently there was a weekend in which the experiences of myself and several of my friends proved to me that I’m not nearly as used to these comments as I had thought. While at the gym, a good friend had the following experience (quoted from an email to her family) which sort of seemed to kick off a whole weekend of people paying entirely TOO much attention to foreigner’s body shapes…especially the hind end. :D

On that day, my friend said:

One of the many people who decided to converse with me (that day) was one of the cleaning ladies. She is really nice and I usually say some little nothing to her most days, even though her accent makes her hard to understand. Here’s my favorite paraphrased and truncated excerpt of her conversation with me: “WA! Your face is getting really thin. But your butt, back here (pointing in case I wasn’t sure which butt she was referring to), is still very big. Why don’t you try to lose some weight back there? It’s not very attractive. Everyone says. (I LOVE that part) Do you understand me when I speak Chinese? (She asks this 2-3 times every time she speaks with me) You’re upper body is thin too but, aiya, that butt….” I said something like blah blah genetics blah blah taking time but on the inside I was laughing really hard.

It should be noted that my friend is of a pretty average size for a North American…curvy, but not to an unusual extent. I’m proud of her for being able to laugh it off at that point…that’s how you know you’ve started to get used to this kind of comments. When I first came, comments like this made me want to go home and cry. Now, I’ve also gotten to the point of laughter most of the time…however, when the comments keep rolling in, all in a short period of time it gets a little harder to just shake off.

Later that afternoon, I went to the mall below the gym looking for some summer clothes. I located a rack of capri pants that were on serious sale, and started looking through them. As I was looking through them, the saleslady came over to me…and trying to be helpful, picked up a pair of shorts from the rack of MEN’S shorts. Assuming that I didn’t speak Chinese, she pointed at me, pointed at the shorts, and then pointed back at me again. Meaning, in the universal language of “gesture”: “I recommend you try these.” Not only were these men’s shorts, but they were the BIGGEST pair of shorts I have ever seen in my life. I’m not exaggerating in the least when I say that I could have fit my whole body (with room to spare) in one leg of these shorts. Um, thanks for the recommendation, saleslady. So, I finally managed to say something along the lines of “Hey, those are men’s…and they’re way TOO big!” To which she replied, “Well, you definitely can’t wear those pants that you’re looking through, there aren’t any big enough for you!”

The next day, the same friend quoted above and I decided to go clothes shopping. We went to a favorite local market that sells mostly clothes that were intended for export (meaning: they often have clothes in foreign sizes!!!). My friend found a pair of linen trousers she wanted to try on and asked the lady if there was a place where she could try them (most of these shops hang up a sheet behind which you can try on clothes, but this one didn’t have one). The saleslady took one look at her, looked at the trousers and said “Nope. You can’t wear those. You’re too thick back here” and proceeded to pat my friend’s butt. Then the saleslady pulled a pair of trousers (five or six sizes bigger) off the rack and said, “Here, try these.” These trousers were obviously far too big, and my friend said so. However, the saleslady just shrugged her shoulders and turned to the next customer. We gave up on the linen trousers and went to the next stall. As if that part of her body hadn’t garnered enough attention in the preceding 24 hours, within five minutes of this conversation, a random passer-by also happened to run her hand over my friend’s rear-end.

There were more incidents that factored into this particular weekend, concerning both myself and several other friends, but in the interest of brevity (ha! no hope for that!) I’ll spare you all the gory details. Suffice it to say, it helped me realize that I’m not quite as used to all this commenting as I had thought. The occasional comment is easy to laugh off (which is progress), but by the end of a weekend which seems like it has been chock full of comments toward yourself and your friends…it gets much harder and more frustrating.

Now that time has passed (and the comments have gone back to normal levels), the humor in all of this has returned. I don’t want what I’ve posted above to be taken only as a vent though, because it actually has triggered some interesting thoughts and important realizations on several levels. I hope I can blog more about some of this stuff later on, but for now, I’ll just list a few of the thoughts below.

1. The notion of customer service in China is entirely different from in North America. In China, the customer ISN’T always right. Salespeople consider themselves to be experts in their fields and the “service” they are providing is that of telling you straight out what you can and can’t wear (and why). There is no need to flatter and cater to the customer’s whim…because with a population this big, the loss of a customer or two is no big deal. This can be a jolt for the foreign customer…who expects not only to be fawned over a bit, but is also not expecting (what she considers to be) personal comments regarding body size/shape.

2. It seems like a possibility that body shape/size/looks may be, particularly for older generations, a less important factor in self-worth than in North America. I was telling a friend of ours who is Chinese (born and raised in Taiwan) but completely bi-lingual (educated in international schools and graduated from college in the US) about these incidents and she said that she feels like these women are that direct about body shape/size because to them, in the end, it really doesn’t matter as much. Somehow less of who one is is invested in their shape, size, or looks…and that makes it okay to make comments about things that are obvious to everyone. This is an interesting idea, especially juxtaposed against the things that I hear from my young Chinese friends which indicate to me that, even if the above has some truth to it, body image and looks have shifted to become more important somewhere in the last several decades.

p.s. To top it all off, when I told my teacher (who has heard about this same phenomenon from many students) about all the comments/touching incidents within that one weekend she first sympathized (she gets comments from salesladies too), but then responded with the following “说实在的,我有的时候也想摸一摸你们的屁股!” or roughly, “Hey, to tell the truth, sometimes I want to feel your butts too!” Hilarious…though I still haven’t quite figured out whether this is just plain curiousity speaking, or because patting someone’s butt is some kind of affectionate gesture…or quite possibly, it’s a mixture of both.

Related Articles:

Share

16 replies to “Please stop paying attention to my…”


  1. Ha. See, isn’t cross-cultural living fun?? =D

    Way to go Jessica and her anonymous workout buddy for sharing such a revealing experience!

    Trying to hear people for what they actually mean (speaking from within their culture) instead of what it feels like they mean (to us, hearing from within our culture) isn’t easy – and I suspect the ladies have it worse in China. Just because a foreigner can ‘understand’ in their head that there’s no offense meant or that they’re actually trying to be friendly doesn’t mean it doesn’t feel bad, wrong, offensive, and/or hurtful.


  2. W.D. – Our experience is the same, in that the situation Jessica’s writing about isn’t uncommon at all. Explicitly sex-related comments are more rare, though I have had people, in the midst of regular conversation, comment on particular body parts of mine in the gym shower, or make jokes when they see I’ve not had much sleep. But the vast majority of “public conversations with strangers that we’d never have in North America” for us are about weight and health.

    I’ve been thinking about this for a while, trying to nail down the major underlying factors creating this particular difference, where Chinese people discuss things that just mortify Westerners. No answers yet, but I think I’m getting there. I suspect different general attitudes toward the body have a lot to do with it, and how obvious things regarding one’s body are and aren’t connect to “face.”


  3. “mainline it down his cultural vein” — I’ll remember that one. but i suppose awkward cross-cultural moments and bad trips must be somewhat similar, especially when you go asking for it like your friend. ha, what a trooper.


  4. after traumatic experiences trying to buy shoes and clothes and getting offered men’s clothes and looks of horror when i would say my shoe size, etc. trying to shop within my first few months of living here, i simply refused to even attempt shopping for YEARS. visa trips to hong kong were a godsend for this reason. now armed with a better knowledge of where to look for larger items, much better chinese so that salespeople don’t have to resort to that trauma-inducing gesturing, and having lost some weight, i buy the occasional item of clothing when i’m really feeling like it’s time but it’s certainly not the fun activity buying clothing can be in the states.

    about your points (with the caveat that i realize this is an old post and so your perspectives might have evolved):

    1. i think that’s not the only difference in terms of sales service. another issue is that the average store in north america the salespeople are employees trained by a corporation that has plenty of money to spend on floor models of the clothes, damage to the clothes, etc. in china often the salesperson is also the shop owner and by extension, owner of all the clothes. if they allow somebody to try on an item of clothing that’s too small for them (and i think north americans have a tendency toward distorted body image and thus frequently try clothes that are too small, especially if the size isn’t marked), they run the risk of the item being damaged, seams and zippers ripped, etc. probably safer to offend the customer than to have the clothing damaged and still not make a sale. it’s also pragmatic: why should either party bother taking the time to try on something that (at least from the salesperson’s perspective) clearly won’t fit? usually, actually, they’ll have a tape measure on hand to save everyone the trouble.

    2. i think westerners in general tend to be highly sensitive about our appearances, especially body image, in relation to our self-worth. this is something ingrained into us from a young age, by the media and consumerist machines. that’s what much of the fuss among feminists and anti-consumerist groups is about–what the consuming does to our self-perceptions. when it comes down to it, IS there a reason to get so worked up if we’re a bit fatter than the next girl? we’re led to believe that the extra pounds makes us less attractive. whether or not it actually does is questionable. and, conversely, i think that because it’s become such a sensitive issue for us, a lot of us ARE in denial about our own bodies, believing we’re fatter or thinner than we actually are. i think the whole implementation of consumerism, marketing media, etc. in china is why body image is starting to become an issue among younger generations, but, like you said, when an older generation makes a remark it’s not meant to offend or whatever. on the other hand, i’m not the only to have noted that chinese people tend to blurt out whatever’s on their mind on some matters–my mom (chinese) never has any problem telling me immediately just how bad my hair/clothing/whatever looks.

    finally, the most recent time i’ve had one of these comments was about a month ago, at a friend’s birthday party. the guests–all of whom were locals except for the birthday girl (ethnically chinese and very slender), me (admittedly, having put on some weight recently and dressed rather immodestly since it was so darn hot), and one other guy who didn’t understand chinese or therefore any of the exchange–were sitting around, snacking and conversing when my friend mentioned that a new vegetarian restaurant had just opened up to me. her language teacher, probably in her 30s, who i’d met briefly, once, turns to me and asks if i’m vegetarian, which i affirmed. then she literally looked me up and down and said, “看不出来!” there was an uncomfortable pause as the two non-locals (me and the birthday girl) digested her meaning, and then she started giggling and her husband started admonishing her for her big mouth. the other guests looked slightly uncomfortable, and one, also a little on the chubby side, said “吃素还是能长胖” i guess to ease the tension. anyway i was shocked at how, after five years of living here, i was still so offended and sensitive about the remark; on the other hand, i was thinking that judging by the big-mouth’s, her husband’s, and the other people in the room’s reactions, it’s not like she was being unknowingly rude … it was like she knew she was being rude and didn’t hold her tongue in time anyway. i was close to tears, feeling humiliated in a rather intimate setting with a group of strangers–mostly because i knew what she said was true–and having the compounded annoyances of realizing i was in denial about having gained weight, and that after so long i’m still not used to such comments, etc. etc. but after that my mood changed to anger and annoyance (also at her ignorance that the only reason she could see for eating vegetarian would be to lose weight, apparently) and, finally, a -it mood, after which i ate all the effing free cheese i could fit into my mouth and comiserated with a late-arriving friend who had also recently put on some weight and shared her being-called-fat stories. and FINALLY, it did kick my to start running again and shed those pounds i’ve gained since quitting.


  5. jane,

    I especially agree about your #2, and any female who has to grow up in the Western media’s toxic environment has my sincere sympathy whether they want it or not.

    That point, that Western women in China tend to be overly sensitive has come up a few times on here… I forget where exactly. Maybe here: 关心 talk: so offensive it’s funny

    Our teachers have commented more than once: “Foreigners are too sensitive!” I agree, but that doesn’t mean Chinese aren’t too insensitive as well. Still makes for funny stories though!


  6. This was the hardest thing for me to get used to. I lived in Shen Zhen with my husband and his extended family while working as an English tutor for rich Chinese Urbanites.

    One day while I was tutoring an adorable 6 year old girl in her home, her 80 year old grandmother surprised my by wrapping a rope around my butt, taking a measurement and then lecturing me loudly in her village dialect that I couldn’t understand. Being from the Canton area, it was a version of Cantonese, not Mandarin, so I didn’t catch a single word. I looked hopelessly over at my young student and she happily translated:

    “She says your butt is way too big”, the girl told me, “it means you’re going to get really sick if you don’t get rid of it. A big belly is good, but a big butt means that you sit for too long and don’t move.”

    I laughed and asked her to translate back for me, “I’m a white person,” I said, “If I were a lazy white person my butt would be three times the size!”

    This in combination with my class of first graders who would constantly say: “老师有很大屁股! 打她屁股!” I was getting a little worried that my butt was going to come between me and meaningful relationships with my students :P Luckily none of them ever tried.

Leave a Reply...

Subscribe




About

A North American couple with a background in Intercultural Studies tries to make a life in China. This is our coping mechanismblog.

Share on Facebook

We both write, but Jessica only writes when I bribe her. See all of her posts here.

Subscribe/Follow

Enter your email address:

Subscribe

Add to Google

Choose a Topic

  • Baijiu (白酒) (6)
  • Beauty (10)
  • Being Chinese about it (143)
  • Blessings (68)
  • China books & DVDs (48)
  • China plans & prep (11)
  • China web debris (445)
  • China: life & times (264)
  • ChinaHopeLive.net (13)
  • Chinese festivals (44)
  • Chinese history (29)
  • Chinese medicine (15)
  • Chinese movies (6)
  • Chinese songs (10)
  • Chinese take-out (215)
  • Chinglish (22)
  • Christmas (22)
  • Cultural perspectives (149)
  • Cultural re-adjustment (7)
  • Culture fun (142)
  • Culture stress (50)
  • Cute (33)
  • Face (14)
  • Family (60)
  • Friends Far Away (7)
  • Goodbyes (6)
  • How to… (13)
  • Karaoke (7)
  • Learning (55)
  • Learning Mandarin (96)
  • Lost in translation (24)
  • Love (18)
  • M.A. studies (23)
  • Marriage (28)
  • Meta-narratives (78)
  • oh. Canada (6)
  • Olympics (31)
  • People (130)
  • Photo posts (128)
  • Places (242)
  • Pollution (21)
  • Propaganda (70)
  • Random (3)
  • Running wild in the streets (116)
  • Sex & Sexuality (17)
  • Soapboxes (35)
  • Teaching English (56)
  • Things we've eaten (54)
  • Traffic (12)
  • Travelling (30)
  • Underappreciated genius (14)
  • Translate 翻译

    Latest Posts

  • Asian ‘gendercide’ in Canada — our local paper opens an explosive can of worms

  • Fair Trade iPhones

  • Eaves-dropping on Beijingers in Vancouver

  • Chinese “evil cult” propaganda in our Canadian mailbox

  • Japanese apologies

  • Merry Christmas 2011! (“Is there anything worth believing in?”)

  • The ChinaHopeLive.net 2011 China photo gallery is up!

  • How we participated in China’s rampant residential electricity thieving

  • China’s “leftover women” [Updated]

  • Morality, ‘Face’ and China’s religious market

  • China’s sexual education, taboos and consequences

  • Cross-cultural living and the desire to be intimately known

  • Lest we forget

  • Factory Girls, communal village life, and the growth of individualism in China

  • Lying, “Lying” and Mainland China [Updated 2x]

  • Racism in Vancouver, Canada and my ESL student’s experience

  • Scene clips & screen stills from “1911″ (we were extras!)

  • “Mao’s Great Famine” and China’s moral landscape

  • Prostitution in Tianjin, China — anecdotes, STD vocab, and how one group of local women is fighting back

  • The suspiciously Orwellian children’s story 《鸭子农夫》 “Farmer Duck” Chinese-Pinyin-English read-along


  • Photos

    smallsquare3fireworks1.JPG smallsquare2bug1.JPG smallsquare1pagoda1.JPG smallsquare5lu1.JPG

    Browse our photos here!

    Conversations

    Fair Trade iPhones (2)
     baroness radon: "I remember a Starbucks cup from several years..."
     Lorin Yochim: "“Saving the world…one cup at a..."

    China’s ‘century of humiliation’ and the Olympics (1)
     Afi: "The most irmpotant reason why China may not invest in the..."

    Foreign baby in China essentials: IMPORTED BABY FORMULA (24)
     damien: "I am going to have a baby in china , are there USA..."

    Steve Jobs, Apple, China and Us [updated] (16)
     Dr Ross Grainger: "The American CEOs I mentioned are less..."
     Max: "I understand that, but look what Erica wrote: “paying too..."

    Affordable gadgets vs. Chinese workers’ rights (2)
     Joel 大江: "Do you know what got him interested in Chinese..."
     Meredith: "Mike Daisey, who is featured in the CBS News article..."

    Happy Lantern Festival 2011 from Tianjin, China! (7)
     Joel 大江: "Hi Rachel! These photos and video were taken on the..."
     Rachel Harwood: "We are expats in Teda, and this is our first..."

    Videos

    chlvideo.png

    See the videos page!

    Chinese take-out

    Good good study, day day up!

    国保/国宝

    Pronounced: guó ​bǎo
    Literally: National Security/National Treasure
    Means: The two terms are homophones, and "national treasure" often means "panda". A writer at Seeing Red in China explains the rest: "how panda becomes the symbol for Chinese security thugs: Chinese national security (more like secret police) is called 国保 (guó ​bǎo) for short, and it’s pronounced exactly the same as 国宝, national treasure. Netizens sometimes refer 国保 as 国宝, jokingly, hence Panda, China’s national treasure. Kungfu Panda movies provided the basis for Panda to be a martial character."

    With the recent confrontation between Batman actor Christian Bale and some infamous Chinese security thugs, online Chinese are been passing around "Pandaman vs. Batman" jokes, and photoshopping "Pandaman" into all kinds of scenarios, including movie posters and images from other security embarrassments and scandals. See here, here and here for more.

    - 2011/12/19

    View all

    InterWǎng Debris

    Recent China internet debris.

    Affordable gadgets vs. Chinese workers' rights

    Three recent news articles (and one response) return the spotlight to the mammoth electronics factories in China that make most of our favourite electronics, pointing out what everybody knows and no one wants to think about:

    Happy Chinese workers spell the end of affordable tech (ZDNet)
    "Human and worker rights reforms in China would have serious negative consequences for the efficiency and cost of the gadget supply chain.
    [...]
    "Foxconn’s client list reads like a celebrity tech roster that includes Hewlett-Packard, Dell, Intel, Lenovo, IBM, Cisco/Linksys, Netgear, Microsoft, Sharp, Sony, Motorola, Asus, Acer and Vizio... tablet runners and e-reader champions Amazon and Barnes & Noble. Yes, your Kindles and Nooks are also made by the very same companies with the same awful working conditions that make products for Apple."

    The dark side of shiny Apple products (CBS News)
    "...our most popular electronic devices are largely made by hand ... MANY hands, as it turns out ... hands that often are very over-worked, or so industry's critics contend."
    [...]
    ""I met workers who were 12. Do you really think Apple doesn't know?"

    "But what was news were the suicides..."

    In China, Human Costs Are Built Into an iPad (NYT)
    and
    BSR: New York Times’ Apple-Foxconn article contains untruths, inaccuracies, and misleading info (Mac Daily News)

    - 2012/02/06

    Those aren't Chinese New Year's fireworks; they're "recreational munitions"

    From Nankai Rob's Chinese New Year 2012 post "Spring Festival Time. . .Lock and Load":
    "...parties are held on a scale so massive that Caligula would have nodded in approval, and enough recreational munitions are set off to make the Battle of Waterloo feel like a suburban bar mitzvah. You’ll notice my careful word choice here: “recreational munitions” rather than “fireworks.” “Fireworks” as a term carries with it more celebratory, even innocent connotations, but you can’t define Chinese celebratory fireworks by the intent behind them. Certainly they’re set off with great excitement and joy, but you can, after all, also lob a grenade into a dumpster with great excitement and joy, and most of what is being set off these days qualifies for inclusion in the dumpster-grenade category. So: recreational munitions."

    For more about the genuinely stunning Chinese New Year fireworks phenomenon with photos and video, see:

    Happy Chinese New Year!

    - 2012/01/22

    Tension rising with Mainland students in American universities

    Interesting observations at China Law Blog about how Mainland Chinese students studying in the USA -- in contrast to Chinese from other countries -- are apparently generating a lot of anger among the American students: Chinese Students In America. It's Bad Out There.

    It seems that Mainland Chinese attitudes toward education don't play well among their American classmates. For example:

    "They cheat all the time. It is pretty unbelievable how often I have seen them cheating. I am always complaining to my professors about this, but they usually just act like they are too important to deign to deal with something like this. Just come watch a test being adminstered and it will be obvious. They are allowed to get away with it because they pay the foreign tuition rate."

    "One student told me of how all the students not from China agreed not to speak one day to see what would happen. There was no class discussion and the teacher asked them not to do it again."

    - 2012/01/11

    View all

    What's this?

    Links

    Learning Chinese
    Learning China
    Friends
    Other Stuff


      RSS
      ~
      LEGAL:
    All text, images, and photographs are the sole property of the authors unless otherwise indicated.
    Copyright (c) 2005-2011 ChinaHopeLive. All rights reserved. Contact Joel and Jessica for copyright details.
      ~
      Increase your website traffic with Attracta.com
      ~


    Best Blogs Asia Directory Featured in Alltop living in China News blogs & blog posts

    Switch to our mobile site