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	<title>Comments on: The Good Samaritan with Chinese characteristics (Pt.2): explanations, excuses, &amp; scapegoats</title>
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	<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/04/07/the-good-samaritan-with-chinese-characteristics-pt2-explanations-excuses-scapegoats</link>
	<description>A cross-cultural adventure with the personal side of China.</description>
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		<title>By: Joel 大江</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/04/07/the-good-samaritan-with-chinese-characteristics-pt2-explanations-excuses-scapegoats/comment-page-1#comment-54997</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel 大江</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3091#comment-54997</guid>
		<description>Most of the criticisms I quoted aren&#039;t from Westerners blaming Confucius for things Westerners don&#039;t like about Chinese; they&#039;re from Chinese blaming Confucianism for things Chinese people don&#039;t like about their own culture.

Here are the complaints re: Confucianism, excerpted from above:
&lt;blockquote&gt;...Confucianism omitted out of the social relationships man’s social obligations toward the stranger...Theoretically, it was provided for in the “doctrine of reciprocity”...But this relationship toward “others” was not one of the five cardinal relationships...in theory at least, Confucius did not mean family consciousness to degenerate into a form of magnified selfishness at the cost of social integrity...He meant the moral training in the family as the basis for general moral training [from which] a society should emerge which would live happily and harmoniously together...The consequences are fairly satisfactory for the family, but disastrous for the state...&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Cheng (1990) points out that the Confucian “five cardinal relationships” (wǔ lún; 五伦) put too much emphasis on family and one-to-one relationships (e.g., brother to brother and father to son); hence, they fail to address the broader aspect of human relationship, such as that between a person and the community at large. Liáng Qǐ Chāo 梁启超 (1936), a prominent thinker in modern Chinese history, attributed a Chinese person’s lack of “civic morality” (gōng dé; 公德) and sense of obligation to society to the Confucian ethic&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Strangers have no place in this social logic and are not mentioned in any of the Five Cardinal Relations [Confucian values]. In this vacuum there are no constraints beyond self-interest to bind people together.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;The only principle that might guide behaviour towards strangers is the Chinese ‘golden rule’ of Confucius, ‘Do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you.’ This counsel, however, is in the negative and prohibits harmful acts rather than promoting helpfulness.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I totally understand, first-hand, how an aspect of a cultural heritage can be unfairly scapegoated for all the ills of that culture. But so far, here and on other blogs, the only pro-Confucian responses I&#039;ve seen to these criticism boil down to, &quot;You/foreigners/Western-influenced-Chinese don&#039;t know what they&#039;re talking about.&quot;  I&#039;d much rather see people engage the specific criticisms quoted above.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Before one blame Confucius it’s best to read and understand what he says.&lt;/blockquote&gt;... and study the results of faithfully applying his ideas in society. But I&#039;ve never heard anyone argue that Confucius would approve of the kind of behaviour we&#039;re discussing here. People are blaming the heritage of Confucianism, or the practical results of his teachings as a whole (for example, where he did and did not lay his emphases), more than man himself or his specific teachings. Of course the historical Confucian heritage as it played/is playing out in Chinese culture is not 100% faithful to Confucius&#039; actual ideas, generally similar to the way many points in &#039;Christian&#039; history are directly contrary to the actual life and teachings of Jesus. Furthermore, Confucius&#039; teachings no doubt have results in some areas that he did not anticipate and would not approve of, either through lack of foresight on his part or misapplication by his followers and the society at large, similar to same way it can be said that, &quot;Calvin would not be a Calvinist&quot; (depending on which brand of Calvinism you&#039;re referring to).

Anyway, I&#039;m still waiting for someone to address the specific criticisms I&#039;ve quoted. That would be interesting, and I&#039;d probably learn something! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the criticisms I quoted aren&#8217;t from Westerners blaming Confucius for things Westerners don&#8217;t like about Chinese; they&#8217;re from Chinese blaming Confucianism for things Chinese people don&#8217;t like about their own culture.</p>
<p>Here are the complaints re: Confucianism, excerpted from above:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;Confucianism omitted out of the social relationships man’s social obligations toward the stranger&#8230;Theoretically, it was provided for in the “doctrine of reciprocity”&#8230;But this relationship toward “others” was not one of the five cardinal relationships&#8230;in theory at least, Confucius did not mean family consciousness to degenerate into a form of magnified selfishness at the cost of social integrity&#8230;He meant the moral training in the family as the basis for general moral training [from which] a society should emerge which would live happily and harmoniously together&#8230;The consequences are fairly satisfactory for the family, but disastrous for the state&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Cheng (1990) points out that the Confucian “five cardinal relationships” (wǔ lún; 五伦) put too much emphasis on family and one-to-one relationships (e.g., brother to brother and father to son); hence, they fail to address the broader aspect of human relationship, such as that between a person and the community at large. Liáng Qǐ Chāo 梁启超 (1936), a prominent thinker in modern Chinese history, attributed a Chinese person’s lack of “civic morality” (gōng dé; 公德) and sense of obligation to society to the Confucian ethic</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Strangers have no place in this social logic and are not mentioned in any of the Five Cardinal Relations [Confucian values]. In this vacuum there are no constraints beyond self-interest to bind people together.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>The only principle that might guide behaviour towards strangers is the Chinese ‘golden rule’ of Confucius, ‘Do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you.’ This counsel, however, is in the negative and prohibits harmful acts rather than promoting helpfulness.</p></blockquote>
<p>I totally understand, first-hand, how an aspect of a cultural heritage can be unfairly scapegoated for all the ills of that culture. But so far, here and on other blogs, the only pro-Confucian responses I&#8217;ve seen to these criticism boil down to, &#8220;You/foreigners/Western-influenced-Chinese don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re talking about.&#8221;  I&#8217;d much rather see people engage the specific criticisms quoted above.</p>
<blockquote><p>Before one blame Confucius it’s best to read and understand what he says.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230; and study the results of faithfully applying his ideas in society. But I&#8217;ve never heard anyone argue that Confucius would approve of the kind of behaviour we&#8217;re discussing here. People are blaming the heritage of Confucianism, or the practical results of his teachings as a whole (for example, where he did and did not lay his emphases), more than man himself or his specific teachings. Of course the historical Confucian heritage as it played/is playing out in Chinese culture is not 100% faithful to Confucius&#8217; actual ideas, generally similar to the way many points in &#8216;Christian&#8217; history are directly contrary to the actual life and teachings of Jesus. Furthermore, Confucius&#8217; teachings no doubt have results in some areas that he did not anticipate and would not approve of, either through lack of foresight on his part or misapplication by his followers and the society at large, similar to same way it can be said that, &#8220;Calvin would not be a Calvinist&#8221; (depending on which brand of Calvinism you&#8217;re referring to).</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m still waiting for someone to address the specific criticisms I&#8217;ve quoted. That would be interesting, and I&#8217;d probably learn something! :)</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Ross Grainger</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/04/07/the-good-samaritan-with-chinese-characteristics-pt2-explanations-excuses-scapegoats/comment-page-1#comment-54958</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Ross Grainger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 06:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3091#comment-54958</guid>
		<description>Confucius gets the blame for a lot of things Westerners don&#039;t like about the Chinese. However, very few Chinese and even less foreigners have ever read and studied the Confucian classics. The Lun Yu (Analects) or the Sayings of Confucius which were put together by the Master&#039;s leading students are regarded as the most authoritative account of what Confucius actually said.

Confucius said nothing about foreigners as China was then composed of many small tribal kingdoms. Confucius was invited by different rulers to offer advice in many of them and so most of the people he spoke to were, effectively, strangers. We can glean how people should behave according to Confucius in regard to strangers from the following quotes by the Master from the Lun Yu:

&quot;By nature, men are nearly alike; by practice, they develop in ways to be wide apart.&quot; (Lun Yu: 17.3).

A young man should be a good son at home and an obedient young man abroad, sparing of speech but trustworthy in what he says, and should love the people at large and cultivate friendships among them” [Lun Yu: I.6].

The Master said, &quot;The Chun Tzu (Gentleman)thinks of Ren; the small man thinks of comfort. The superior man thinks of the welfare of others; the small man thinks of the favors which he may himself personally receive&quot; (Lun Yu: 4.11).

The master said, ‘Guide them by edicts, keep them in line with punishments, and the common people may stay out of trouble but they will have no sense of shame.  Guide them by virtue, take seriously the performance of Rites, and the people will, besides having a sense of shame, reform themselves (Lun Yu: ii.3).

King Chi K&#039;ang, distressed about the number of thieves, inquired of Confucius how to do away with them. Confucius said, &quot;If you, sir, were not so covetous and set an example in regard modesty and frugality , there would be no thought of thievery, theft and lawlessness throughout the kingdom&quot; (Lun Yu: 12.18)

In this, the last quote, Confucius is referring to &#039;remoter&#039; people or strangers when he says the following:

If remoter people are not submissive, all the influences of civil culture and virtue should be cultivated in order to attract them; and when they have been so attracted, they must be made contented and tranquil(Lun Yu 16.1).

Before one blame Confucius it&#039;s best to read and understand what he says.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Confucius gets the blame for a lot of things Westerners don&#8217;t like about the Chinese. However, very few Chinese and even less foreigners have ever read and studied the Confucian classics. The Lun Yu (Analects) or the Sayings of Confucius which were put together by the Master&#8217;s leading students are regarded as the most authoritative account of what Confucius actually said.</p>
<p>Confucius said nothing about foreigners as China was then composed of many small tribal kingdoms. Confucius was invited by different rulers to offer advice in many of them and so most of the people he spoke to were, effectively, strangers. We can glean how people should behave according to Confucius in regard to strangers from the following quotes by the Master from the Lun Yu:</p>
<p>&#8220;By nature, men are nearly alike; by practice, they develop in ways to be wide apart.&#8221; (Lun Yu: 17.3).</p>
<p>A young man should be a good son at home and an obedient young man abroad, sparing of speech but trustworthy in what he says, and should love the people at large and cultivate friendships among them” [Lun Yu: I.6].</p>
<p>The Master said, &#8220;The Chun Tzu (Gentleman)thinks of Ren; the small man thinks of comfort. The superior man thinks of the welfare of others; the small man thinks of the favors which he may himself personally receive&#8221; (Lun Yu: 4.11).</p>
<p>The master said, ‘Guide them by edicts, keep them in line with punishments, and the common people may stay out of trouble but they will have no sense of shame.  Guide them by virtue, take seriously the performance of Rites, and the people will, besides having a sense of shame, reform themselves (Lun Yu: ii.3).</p>
<p>King Chi K&#8217;ang, distressed about the number of thieves, inquired of Confucius how to do away with them. Confucius said, &#8220;If you, sir, were not so covetous and set an example in regard modesty and frugality , there would be no thought of thievery, theft and lawlessness throughout the kingdom&#8221; (Lun Yu: 12.18)</p>
<p>In this, the last quote, Confucius is referring to &#8216;remoter&#8217; people or strangers when he says the following:</p>
<p>If remoter people are not submissive, all the influences of civil culture and virtue should be cultivated in order to attract them; and when they have been so attracted, they must be made contented and tranquil(Lun Yu 16.1).</p>
<p>Before one blame Confucius it&#8217;s best to read and understand what he says.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel 大江</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/04/07/the-good-samaritan-with-chinese-characteristics-pt2-explanations-excuses-scapegoats/comment-page-1#comment-54502</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel 大江</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2011 04:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3091#comment-54502</guid>
		<description>I think you mean Mainland China lacks a developed sense of &#039;civil society&#039;, meaning citizen participation in (and psychological ownership of) their society. They have an overload of nationalism. My first stab at trying to explain that a little bit is here: &lt;a href=&quot;http://chinahopelive.net/2008/04/19/why-mainlanders-are-taking-it-personally-racially-and-facially-the-short-answer&quot; target=&quot;http://chinahopelive.net/2008/04/19/why-mainlanders-are-taking-it-personally-racially-and-facially-the-short-answer&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;My Mainlanders are Taking It Personally&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you mean Mainland China lacks a developed sense of &#8216;civil society&#8217;, meaning citizen participation in (and psychological ownership of) their society. They have an overload of nationalism. My first stab at trying to explain that a little bit is here: <a href="http://chinahopelive.net/2008/04/19/why-mainlanders-are-taking-it-personally-racially-and-facially-the-short-answer" target="http://chinahopelive.net/2008/04/19/why-mainlanders-are-taking-it-personally-racially-and-facially-the-short-answer" rel="nofollow">My Mainlanders are Taking It Personally</a></p>
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		<title>By: watuzi</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/04/07/the-good-samaritan-with-chinese-characteristics-pt2-explanations-excuses-scapegoats/comment-page-1#comment-54474</link>
		<dc:creator>watuzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2011 16:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3091#comment-54474</guid>
		<description>Joel, chinese still lacks or absent the sense of Patriotism / Nationalism. That&#039;s why all these incidence of callousness still persist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel, chinese still lacks or absent the sense of Patriotism / Nationalism. That&#8217;s why all these incidence of callousness still persist.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara C.</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/04/07/the-good-samaritan-with-chinese-characteristics-pt2-explanations-excuses-scapegoats/comment-page-1#comment-54372</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 23:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3091#comment-54372</guid>
		<description>I cannot believe this blog is well over two years old yet still VERY appropriate! Consider the death of poor little Chinese two year-old Wang Yue (Yueyue), who earlier this month got run over by two vehicles. NONE of 18 passersby stopped to help the fallen, broken toddler. (News story with graphic video -- http://tinyurl.com/68oon7j)

The good samaritan who finally pulled her off the street is now being blamed for doing it only for attention!

Evidently, everything&#039;s still normal back in China.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot believe this blog is well over two years old yet still VERY appropriate! Consider the death of poor little Chinese two year-old Wang Yue (Yueyue), who earlier this month got run over by two vehicles. NONE of 18 passersby stopped to help the fallen, broken toddler. (News story with graphic video &#8212; <a href="http://tinyurl.com/68oon7j" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/68oon7j</a>)</p>
<p>The good samaritan who finally pulled her off the street is now being blamed for doing it only for attention!</p>
<p>Evidently, everything&#8217;s still normal back in China.</p>
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		<title>By: Confucian ethics and modern China: Get Religion Oct 21, 2011 &#171; Conger</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/04/07/the-good-samaritan-with-chinese-characteristics-pt2-explanations-excuses-scapegoats/comment-page-1#comment-54370</link>
		<dc:creator>Confucian ethics and modern China: Get Religion Oct 21, 2011 &#171; Conger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 21:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3091#comment-54370</guid>
		<description>[...] a Good Samaritan is a moral good. China experts note that this does not give a true picture. This 2009 article states that Confucian culture does not value the Good Samaritan. It is a foreign concept. The China [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a Good Samaritan is a moral good. China experts note that this does not give a true picture. This 2009 article states that Confucian culture does not value the Good Samaritan. It is a foreign concept. The China [...]</p>
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		<title>By: phang</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/04/07/the-good-samaritan-with-chinese-characteristics-pt2-explanations-excuses-scapegoats/comment-page-1#comment-54232</link>
		<dc:creator>phang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2011 11:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3091#comment-54232</guid>
		<description>after reading your insightful posts. i&#039;m very very glad that i wasn&#039;t born in China. It is a great shame that i am ethnically Chinese. i used to hold a certain romanticism towards China, i no longer do. China and the Chinese community is a terrible place to be human.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>after reading your insightful posts. i&#8217;m very very glad that i wasn&#8217;t born in China. It is a great shame that i am ethnically Chinese. i used to hold a certain romanticism towards China, i no longer do. China and the Chinese community is a terrible place to be human.</p>
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		<title>By: Breaking the &#8216;rules&#8217; in China &#8212; getting involved when you know you&#8217;re not supposed to &#124; China Hope Live</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/04/07/the-good-samaritan-with-chinese-characteristics-pt2-explanations-excuses-scapegoats/comment-page-1#comment-36744</link>
		<dc:creator>Breaking the &#8216;rules&#8217; in China &#8212; getting involved when you know you&#8217;re not supposed to &#124; China Hope Live</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 14:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3091#comment-36744</guid>
		<description>[...] to instantly make the situation worse and get the third party in a lot of trouble, which is partly why Mainland Chinese typically won&#8217;t interfere even in really bad situations. And adding to other [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to instantly make the situation worse and get the third party in a lot of trouble, which is partly why Mainland Chinese typically won&#8217;t interfere even in really bad situations. And adding to other [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Good Samaritan with Chinese characteristics (Pt.1): examples &#124; China Hope Live</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/04/07/the-good-samaritan-with-chinese-characteristics-pt2-explanations-excuses-scapegoats/comment-page-1#comment-17851</link>
		<dc:creator>The Good Samaritan with Chinese characteristics (Pt.1): examples &#124; China Hope Live</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 07:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3091#comment-17851</guid>
		<description>[...] a lot of trouble if they intervene without understanding enough what’s going on. The next post, The Good Samaritan with Chinese characteristics (Pt.2), samples what some Chinese culture scholars (both Chinese and foreign) have to say about the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a lot of trouble if they intervene without understanding enough what’s going on. The next post, The Good Samaritan with Chinese characteristics (Pt.2), samples what some Chinese culture scholars (both Chinese and foreign) have to say about the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/04/07/the-good-samaritan-with-chinese-characteristics-pt2-explanations-excuses-scapegoats/comment-page-1#comment-13432</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 00:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3091#comment-13432</guid>
		<description>Well, I went to Hong Kong two years ago, travelling on underground/subway trains.  Once the train stops, i saw pregnant woman were looking hard working in carry her unborn baby so I gave up a sit for her, and then her partner or husband were kept saying &quot;Thank you! Thank you!&quot; ten minutes.

I used to thought Chinese people do not want to hear &quot;thank you&quot; too much!

I realised why now after reading your article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I went to Hong Kong two years ago, travelling on underground/subway trains.  Once the train stops, i saw pregnant woman were looking hard working in carry her unborn baby so I gave up a sit for her, and then her partner or husband were kept saying &#8220;Thank you! Thank you!&#8221; ten minutes.</p>
<p>I used to thought Chinese people do not want to hear &#8220;thank you&#8221; too much!</p>
<p>I realised why now after reading your article.</p>
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